TE21 "failure to Proceed".

I had the most frustrating experience with my TE saloon yesterday and would welcome any suggestions. Last year I had to do an emergency stop whilst driving through Westward Ho! and several hundred yeards later the car lost all power. I tried everything to get the engine running again, but no luck. I left the car and then returned half an hour later armed (Marilyn rescued me!) with all my breakdown kit. I tried starting the engine before getting stuck in, and it started immediately. The car then ran perfectly until this Spring, when the same thing happened about 400 yards from home. Everyone was diagnosing ignition problems, so when the car was serviced by my specialist, everything was replaced with new (coil, points, condenser, etc) and we have done well over 2,000 miles since then without problems.  Yesterday I had to do another emergency stop in Fremington (just outside Barnstaple) and within a few hunderd yards, the engine died again. Could this "emergency stop" just be a coincidence? Anyway, I tried to restart without success. However, after waiting ten minutes, I was able to carry on for another few miles before the power disappeared again. I did this twice more before grinding to a halt just before the old bridge in Bideford. There was no chance of getting through the Bideford traffic, so I nursed the car to Marilyn's daughter's partner, who runs a garage on that side of town and left it there overnight. When I picked the car up this morning to drive back home, everything was perfect and no sign of the problem, despite all the traffic and a very steep climb back to our house. Could it be something breaking down when it gets hot? I am at a loss to understand what is happening, but now feel very reticent to take the car out. I will start checking everything out yet again tomorrow and would appreciate any thought anyone may have.  David. Posted by DavidMJS 15/11/2012 18:23:39

David  Did the " etc" include the rotor arm ,the HT lead from coil to dizzy,and the LT wires to/from the coil + the ignition switch itself?  An internal breakage in any of these could cause an intermittent lack of continuity possibley brought on by hard braking. Posted by Peter Martin 17/11/2012 09:44:36

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine with his Jowett Jupiter, same symptoms, without the emergency stopping. After much replacement of parts etc. it was finally the condenser in the top of the distributor! Posted by Offord4.3 17/11/2012 14:00:22

Thanks for the response. The fault has always cropped up when it has been impossible to carry out diagnostic checks (lots of traffic and the dangers involved). If I had my diagnostic kit available and I could replicate the problem at home, life would be much easier! I haven't checked the ignition switch and this is a possibility. It is also likely that the new parts are not to the same standard as the originals. It is very strange that i have done so many miles without problems. A complete failure would be better. It is also strange that I have been able to re-start the engine after waiting for ten minutes or so, and the car then only runs for a few miles before failing again. I have checked that there isn't a vacuum in the fuel tank (had this on my everyday Daimler many years ago). I have even considered the possibility that the carb floats have jammed at the top under heavy braking, but this wouldn't explains why the engine will re-start after a short time, and then stop again. I did have float jamming on  a series 2 Jaguar XJ6 after heavy braking, resulting in petrol gushing out from the carb overflows! I still think that an electrical problem is most likely, but what and why? I also don't know whether the heavy braking is relevant or not. I will keep you posted. The engine is due to be worked on by my specialist in January, so perhaps something will come to light then. Posted by DavidMJS 17/11/2012 15:31:37

Hi,  when the car stops, do you lose ALL electrics ie headlights, starter etc.. - this might indicate a faulty battery lead connection or main earth to chassis. Or perhaps the battery is moving such that the non earth terminal is shorted to ground...or you may have a well hidden short to ground in the main non earth battery lead.  Also have you considered that rapid stopping may be shaking some debris in the fuel tank leading to complete blockage which subsequently settles and allows flow to continue.   Is there any chance that the brake pressure switch to the brake lights is shorting the ignition volts to ground?  good luck Posted by DaveT 18/11/2012 09:01:40

David,  Are you using a reproduction rotor arm? If so, is it one of the black ones - which are useless. If so buy one of the red ones from Chris Prince. Posted by Angus D'Arcy-Drake 19/11/2012 11:19:16

Many thanks for all the comments.  The car seems to be running very well at the moment, but I don't think that I will chance it going to the SW Christmas lunch at Carlyon Bay (170 mile round trip). When I had the recent problem, everything seemed to work (engine turned over, etc), but it just wouldn't start. Because there was so much traffic, I wasn't able to get out and do any real diagnostics (far too dangerous). A pause of a few minutes did mean that the engine would start, but it died the moment I put the car into drive. A ten minute rest allowed me to drive another few miles!!!!!!!!!!!! I will now wait until the car goes in for a head refurbishment in January. The chap who does this is a Jaguar and Lotus specialist, who builds race engines. He should be able to find out what the problem is. I will keep you all posted.  David Posted by DavidMJS 22/11/2012 18:37:41

I can now confirm that many of the modern reproduction rotor arms are a disaster. They look perfectly serviceable and perform well for most of the time. However, there is a basic design fault which allows the rivet on the top to short out to the clip which grips the distributor shaft. You can sometimes drive very considerable distances with no problems, and then for no apparent reason the engine just stops. This usually happens when you slow down and then try to accelerate again. The engine very often restarts again immediately: sometimes it needs to be left for 5 minutes or so. In retrospect, I realise that my car had been doing this for some considerable time, particularly in very hot weather. The only part I have not had replaced, in trying to identify the problem, was the rotor arm. My recent complete engine rebuild also replaced everything, EXCEPT THE ROTOR ARM!!!!!!!!!  Someone had suggested that this might be the cause of the problem and I ordered one of the special "red" ones from the Distributor Doctor. In the meantime, I found a very very old rotor arm at the bottom of my spares bag: this has no rivet or clip and is far more solid and substantial than the modern one on the car. It has been a revellation using this during the first 320 miles of running in (180 still to go). The engine is much smoother and pulls much better - AND there has been no sign of any hint of the previous behaviour. I will continue to use this very ancient rotor arm and keep the "red" one as a spare. It is amazing that such a seemingly simple component can cause so much trouble. Posted by DavidMJS 11/02/2014 18:19:50